tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post6525915433447975760..comments2010-09-03T21:00:17.506-04:00Comments on John Amodea's Blog: What Have We Done To Our Game? Part One of FiveJohn Amodeahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-88784639946917695082009-03-24T03:38:00.000-04:002009-03-24T03:38:00.000-04:00I have been playing since the mid 90's and started...I have been playing since the mid 90's and started in the woods and stayed there. I have been trying sup air and speed tournaments but didn't like the hunt for the best gear thing. New comers showed up fully equipped with the latest gear and pumped the field with so many balls that we consumed during a year in one day. I really liked the good buddy feeling between the teams thou. No hard feelings, some grouch during play, yes but beside elite player gave new comers tips and encourage them to do better.<BR/><BR/>Somewhere paintball on the field went cold and just another sport, so I stayed in wood and we having lots of players and still attracting new ones to. Many of them plays sup air to but still comes regular to us and crawl in the mud. I agree totally that is has to be a mix of all kinds of style of play and no prejudice between them.<BR/><BR/>From Swedensvennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09540046953740170152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-35565033207779123702008-12-17T17:26:00.000-05:002008-12-17T17:26:00.000-05:00The poster above can look at the numbers he mentio...The poster above can look at the numbers he mentions above and say it's like comparing apple to oranges but that is far from what I have seen in the Western states. <BR/><BR/>If you play any form of competitive paintball wether it be local, regional, national and have visited your local fields and stores you would know your comments about paintball not being in a decline is like far from the truth. That thought is actually like "comparing apples to oranges" versus the real times today in paintball.<BR/><BR/>John I am really glad I found your blog on this series. I think personally you have hit this one on the head and hopefully everyone as a whole can wake up and revitalize our sport. I as a player have been doing what you mentioned thus far for the past two years since I re-engaged into this sport. I started back in the Splatmaster days and was introduced into this sport by a friends Dad and now as a father I have been doing the same.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241527756427907214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-56102085265920698152008-12-17T07:26:00.000-05:002008-12-17T07:26:00.000-05:00Kid,No doubt I was a proponent of changing the gam...Kid,<BR/><BR/>No doubt I was a proponent of changing the game's image from the "war" image to a more sport look. At this point no one really knows for sure if the war/woods image would have been good or bad for the game in the long run. But I'll address that a little later...<BR/><BR/>That said, your memory of me defending cheating is WAY wrong.John Amodeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-53266792079172333452008-12-15T17:32:00.000-05:002008-12-15T17:32:00.000-05:00Well John you got it right. Unfortunately it's a l...Well John you got it right. Unfortunately it's a little too late and hind sight is 20/20. The funny thing to me is that you were one of the most vocal proponents of "getting out of the woods". I remember your editorials in PB2X where you talked about distancing ourselves from the war image. You went on at length about the future of paintball being fit athletes, brightly lit fields and flashy gear. Renegade ball was a four-letter word. PB2X led the charge towards the ESPN future of big sponsors and big money. So it seems ironic to me now that you are here lamenting the loss of the very thing you helped destroy. <BR/>I remember sending you an e-mail years ago asking why your magazine featured pictures of a prominent Texas team cheating. Your response was that I should ask them because you weren't responsible for their actions. My return question was, why as the editor would you feature tournament cheats? Your reply “that’s the game” oh and by the way they won the tourney. The industry in general turned a blind eye to the cheating and the general loss of sportsmanship. PB2X had articles and editorials defending cheating as a skill. When the ROF issue reared it’s ugly head and player safety and enjoyment became a concern PB2X basically stated ‘this is the future get used to it’. <BR/>Well now the chickens have come home to roost. All the industry folks who pushed for super fast guns and slick fields are feeling the pain. The truth is that no one wants to play with the agg kid who wipes everything but a spray can. There were agg players back in the day too. The difference then was that no one thought they were cool and we asked them to leave after a couple of games. Paintball will never die but it will go back to it’s roots. A hot summer day, creeping through the woods, stories about your conquests over beer and burgers when it’s all done. <BR/><BR/>Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-1331535143387544522008-12-10T02:11:00.000-05:002008-12-10T02:11:00.000-05:00Interesting read. I agree with most everything. ...Interesting read. I agree with most everything. Being a fieldowner, I especailly related to that section. Fieldowners do need to look in the mirror if their fields are failing. Our field is doing fine. We've never left the woods and airball bunkers cannot be found at our field. We also have methods in place to control the volumes of paintballs shot (more important than FPS and BPS). It leads to a much more friendly and fun atmosphere and our customers love it.<BR/><BR/>Compare the growth rate of paintball to price of paintballs sometime. After paintball prices fell to a certain price level, growth rates started dropping. Cheap paintballs means lots of paintballs being shot. Lots of paintballs being shot means less fun for many players, especially new players (extremely important to sustain growth). Allow paintballs to fall below a certian level where the average player is shooting a case per day, you cannot help but start seeing declines in growth. This is where the industry has been for the last few years. Fieldowners should be looking at themselves for the blame of falling attendance.<BR/><BR/>That's my view anyway.Reiner Schaferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11735297279972068471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-63104283109291011442008-12-09T16:15:00.000-05:002008-12-09T16:15:00.000-05:00Here I think is another important fact in the wood...Here I think is another important fact in the woods vs. arena ball.<BR/><BR/>The players did not have it forced on them. They voted for it with their dollars/support/attendance/etc. But we -all- know players/people/customers/owners don't really know what they want. They just know what they think they want.<BR/><BR/>I personally would prefer to go back to the part woods, part airball setup.<BR/><BR/>It really changed up the dynamic of what it was to walk a field and actually play the game. Not just make a move and quickly shoot an angle -- which I am not belittling because it's fun as hell.<BR/><BR/>But it's also a blast to crawl all the way up the center of the field and shoot a guy in the face or back before he knows your there. Or to blow down a tape line and get behind another team and shoot 4 of them in the back before they even knew what happened.<BR/><BR/>John, I think a good focus to consider in your approach can be outlined by the academic/cultural critic, now deceased, Neil Postman. Are you familiar?<BR/><BR/>Check out this conference he spoke at:<BR/>http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=postman+technology+society&search=Search<BR/><BR/>Watch videos 1-7. He helps outline some life changing ways to look at just about everything in this world.<BR/><BR/>Starting with questions we should ask and answer, such as...<BR/><BR/>What is the problem to which this technology is a solution?<BR/>Whose problem is it actually? <BR/>If there is a legitimate problem here that is solved by the technology, what other problems will be created by my using this technology?<BR/><BR/>Anyway, if you've got the time, spend an hour watching the videos. Let me know if you found it worthwhile. I did.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13113625282907459974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-70858935478858499692008-12-09T16:12:00.000-05:002008-12-09T16:12:00.000-05:001st off John excellent article..even if people don...1st off John excellent article..even if people don't agree putting these opinions out there starts the discourse. <BR/>Im responding to Chris' comment about looking for causality between the economic downturn and the downturn in paintball. What he fails to mention is the fact that the US went through tough times in 1999 and post 9/11 as well. Despite this paintball continued to grow at an excellent rate during these times. If anything the trickle down effect of technology(ie eyes on guns under $200, regulators, etc) should have been a recent boost to the industry despite tough economic times. The facts that numbers are down despite the industrys best efforts, means the paintball market has entered maturity and the phenomenal growth of the late 90's will likely never be repeated. <BR/>I ask Chris for his reasons why there has been this huge downturn?? He fails to bring up his ideas on causality while critiquing this article. We need everyones opinion and maybe we will find the truth..Chris Remuzzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10906735227631549227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-6007056735568928412008-12-09T13:56:00.000-05:002008-12-09T13:56:00.000-05:00I really like how you put things. As a new field ...I really like how you put things. As a new field owner i have 2 woods courses and 2 supair fields. Most of the tournament players do not play at my field so it's mostly new players. I usually run them a game on the NPPL Supair field, then run them a game in the woods...about 70% of them want to return to the supair field to play because they claim they like being able to see what they can shoot at while the others enjoy the woods because the game is longer. Those that like the tourney fields also enjoy how quick we can "run-it-back" saying it's quicker to restart. It's definitely a toss-up as to which format people really want. I know it stinks to get shot out in the woods after the first minute when you have a 30-minute battle going on and you can't rejoin the fun.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11781709750821902627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-5162545681278891582008-12-09T13:02:00.000-05:002008-12-09T13:02:00.000-05:00Most folks want to have fun and don't want to pay ...Most folks want to have fun and don't want to pay out wads of cash to be assaulted. Go figure. This isn't really knew to tournament paintball either. Many a woodsball field closed shop in the early years because they catered to a few regular players who would drive off new players and didn't work on growing their base.<BR/><BR/>Leading into the next segment, it is strange but giving the customer what they want (ever higher BPS)has increased the cost of competing without increasing the fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-5384350257286820342008-12-08T20:10:00.000-05:002008-12-08T20:10:00.000-05:00No surprise to me.No surprise to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-42560888972105040262008-12-08T12:31:00.000-05:002008-12-08T12:31:00.000-05:00Nailed it again John. Keep it up!Nailed it again John. Keep it up!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-85797526615151910152008-12-08T10:31:00.000-05:002008-12-08T10:31:00.000-05:00I belive you are spot on, and have been writing si...I belive you are spot on, and have been writing similar things in my blog.<BR/>I love this sport!I have been playing for 20 years.I have been a rec player a tourny player a manufacturer and a field/store owner.There was nothing I would have rather done then to be involved in this industry, but over the last few years, things have changed.. Don't get me wrong I still love the game but there is too much pollitics, too many things that keep the sport from being 100% fun. and no matter how hard I tried I could not keep my family fed on paintball alone. <BR/>so now I have kind of hit a paintball reset in my life I am at a point where the best thing I can do is try to promote paintball as a player, get as many people interested as possible and try to help out the new people coming up understand that paintball can still be a game of honor.<BR/>I stoped going to one local field because of the outright fist fights over people geting shot up.<BR/>I have seen TONS of new people run off because the XBALL format holds nothing for people just getting started in the game (and in my location every field has adopted ramping)<BR/><BR/>I have been asking players for years if it is worth throwing away the game we fell in love with just to have our faces on Tv, to be honest even if paintball became a huge hit tomorrow, who would reap the benifits? I would hazard a guess that unless you were dave youngblood or a gardner brother, nothing much would be changing.4<BR/><BR/>we need to slow down and enjoy paintball for what it is, and that just what I have been doing over the last year, so get out there find a local field that is newbie friendly and force your friends and co-workers to give it a tryLife Behind Lenseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11492844147677708682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-20404020928796962982008-12-07T20:51:00.000-05:002008-12-07T20:51:00.000-05:00John another homerun. You nailed it again....John another homerun. You nailed it again....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-90502060699405816512008-12-07T19:48:00.000-05:002008-12-07T19:48:00.000-05:00Im a kinda new player, well lets put it this way, ...Im a kinda new player, well lets put it this way, I first played when i was 14 and loved it. it was 2days straight and then once again the folowing month. that was 15yrs ago.<BR/><BR/>Now that I have my own income I started back up again and MY GOD things changed. Alot of things change and mostly not all good.<BR/><BR/>I completely agrree with everything you've said and hope the sport turns itself around. <BR/><BR/>Though it'll take awhile I resently saw a "woodsball/scenario" tourny that had the game settings at 10mins and 7 players and while it was capt the flag you got more pts per kill then capt the flag itself. I simplely thought to myself isnt that airball but in camo?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16297347233124386863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-7026723796231569912008-12-07T07:02:00.000-05:002008-12-07T07:02:00.000-05:00Hey John..... I hope this finds you doing well. Y...Hey John.....<BR/> <BR/>I hope this finds you doing well. You may not remember me but you stopped by my field/store several years back...1999?. The name of my field is Dothan Survival Games. You were touring the east coast and Southeast region fields for an article you were doing. With so many I'm sure you don't remember us...but we had the tall pines leading in with the large pond by the store in Alabama.<BR/> <BR/>I just finished reading your article on the decline of our sport. You are on the money...perfectly!! My field/store has been in business for 17 yrs now and we have kept busy with our selection of fields.<BR/>In times when others in the area are on the brink of collapse, we are doing well. We have NEVER lost touch with the original intent of the game which is to have FUN !!<BR/> <BR/>Over the years I have lost good refs because they didn't want to support my field on rec-ball Saturdays but preferred instead to play tournament ball and to hell with the rec-ballers. We have a strong customer base because we look after the players who come to our field. After all, having a business that is fun AND makes you money is almost a dream come true isn't it?<BR/> <BR/>Your words ring true in my mind and I've been preaching that same train of thought for the last 17 yrs.<BR/><BR/>Only now I have someone with your background saying the same thing. I'm printing your post and taking it to the field tomorrow. You vindicated me with your industry insight. Please drop in and see us if you are ever in the area again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-67842805599163183212008-12-06T19:57:00.000-05:002008-12-06T19:57:00.000-05:00John, thank you for putting into words what I've b...John, thank you for putting into words what I've been feeling for years. I look forward to the rest of the series. I'm fortunate to be playing at a field that is doing it right. Saturdays and Sundays are usually crowded there, I hope it stays that way.<BR/>Thanks again!<BR/><BR/>Justin,(team captain) Rebels scenario teamAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-83926467147488596902008-12-06T19:10:00.000-05:002008-12-06T19:10:00.000-05:0010 Shot, thanks for taking the time to write, even...10 Shot, thanks for taking the time to write, even if we don't really agree much. Questions, forgetting the SGMA data for a moment, do you really think the player base is as big now (or close) as it was say, 3-5 years ago? Do you think the number of struggling manufacturers, store and fields is just a symptom of the economy? Lastly, do you think the game is just fine the way it is played at more "arena" only fields? Just curious??<BR/><BR/>Anyway feel free to have an opinion... but at least read the next four articles before you think you know what's coming... cool?John Amodeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-23375758285238111642008-12-06T18:34:00.000-05:002008-12-06T18:34:00.000-05:00my response posted early today, it's on mcb as wel...my response posted early today, it's on mcb as well<BR/><BR/>http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2925066<BR/><BR/><BR/>10-shot kidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-14407543879258117512008-12-06T14:26:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:26:00.000-05:00Completely agree with you. One of the biggest rea...Completely agree with you. <BR/><BR/>One of the biggest reasons I retired was that the game all started to blend together. Sure the field layouts changed but it was getting to the point that it wasn't fun anymore. <BR/><BR/>I have found a very much liking in the SPPL which is similar to how 10-man used to be back in the woods. From a players perspective I find it to be more fun because it brings back the original lost elements of the game.<BR/><BR/>I was fortunate to be part of the paintballs return to TV being in the first and third PB2X winning both IAO and NEO, and then once again on ESPN in 2006. Despite all that I can honestly say it did not give the sport anymore exposure. My friends and family would watch it up to the point that I was on than they would switch it off. Getting a TV deal will not help this sport because it is too young, to complicated and lacks a defined direction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-74921034390094332662008-12-06T14:11:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:11:00.000-05:00Chris, remember, this is part one of five.... it's...Chris, remember, this is part one of five.... it's one conclusion in five.John Amodeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-15776649394301258122008-12-06T14:00:00.000-05:002008-12-06T14:00:00.000-05:00Two points I think are important. In the mid 90’s ...Two points I think are important. <BR/><BR/>In the mid 90’s we opened up the game so that teenagers could play. We had several years where we were gaining new players between 11-15 years old AND new players between 18-25 years old. The average player plays for one period of their life. This was a sort of demographic double dipping which could not last for more than 6 years. As these young players aged, they became a significant part of the 18-25 year old demographic, but they did not add to the player counts; they had already played paintball and moved on. The equipment sales during the boom times were inflated by the fact that there was no used equipment on the market which was relatively current. This status quo maintained as long as markers became outdated every 12 months.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-597266606984906812008-12-06T13:53:00.000-05:002008-12-06T13:53:00.000-05:00So, I agree with a lot of your history, but not ne...So, I agree with a lot of your history, but not necessarily your conclusions. It's a bit too simplistic.<BR/><BR/>Certainly changes within the industry have had an effect. But don't forget this industry is part of a bigger economy.<BR/><BR/>You looked at two events and determined that one caused the other. Failed TV/Presentation/Promotional aspect of paintball and the decline in the industry.<BR/><BR/>Just because one came after the other does not mean one caused the other.<BR/><BR/>Surely you would not suggest that the failed efforts to "sell" paintball to the TV world resulted in the world wide economic downturn, the results of which we are now seeing everywhere? <BR/><BR/>Well, the world's economy didn't just fall apart. It has been happening for the past few years. And perhaps paintball is a part of that world economy :)<BR/><BR/>After typing all of that, my point is: we need to be carefully of falsifying attributing success or failure to certain factors. I'm not saying we continue to chase the TV dream. But to abandon many of the things that we sought for our industry as we tried to appeal to TV, simply because we think these are the reasons for the downturn in the industry would be fool hardy.<BR/><BR/>Paintball is not an island.Christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13113625282907459974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-77401083370881900042008-12-06T12:31:00.000-05:002008-12-06T12:31:00.000-05:00Great article. I look forward to the rest of the ...Great article. I look forward to the rest of the series.<BR/><BR/>I started playing at 31 years old in 2004 on a speedball field and fell in love with the excitement and intensity. I have played X-Ball and 7-man and like and appreciate both. But, I have no interest in playing in the woods. I've tried it, and just don't care for it. Even over-weight and old :)<BR/><BR/>I have seen many speedball-only fields shut down and do whatever I can to help new players, support the local shops, and ref/volunteer on the scenario fields, but if it gets to where all that can survive is scenario ball then I'll likely just be done with it unfortunately.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to the rest of the articles. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-44551041112109464432008-12-06T09:56:00.000-05:002008-12-06T09:56:00.000-05:00"I think your laying too much blame on the format,..."I think your laying too much blame on the format, or aesthetics of the game."<BR/><BR/>there will be much more laying blame in other areas in parts two through five.John Amodeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13515675031770699457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2659185529521347740.post-84838086399713141242008-12-06T08:45:00.000-05:002008-12-06T08:45:00.000-05:00I think your laying too much blame on the format, ...I think your laying too much blame on the format, or aesthetics of the game. <BR/><BR/>Yes, that has changed over recent years, at the same time the player base has dwindled. <BR/>But it doesnt mean the latter is a result of the former.<BR/><BR/>Here in the UK our local sites are all woodland, yet our paintball scene has been contracting for 10+ years.<BR/><BR/>Its clear to me, at least here that the problem is not where the newbie can hide his lack of skills. <BR/>Its potentially far more rewarding if the newbies are obviously lacking in skill, so they can be identified and helped out.<BR/><BR/><BR/>But I do agree that the industry were naive to think that they could get it on TV and make it work. And they sacraficed too much in an attempt to acheive that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com